There is an interesting post by Ben Gallager on the Brewers and their Third Space online bookstore. I’m posting it because I asked a bookseller how the Brewers could hire Amazon to deliver my lectionary to me. Ben explains “How to create a Commerce Site”. Seems to me Dr Christian Troll got it right in his “Peddling Smut for Jesus” post. The Brewers do not have a warehouse full of books waiting for a customer to buy on-line. They’ve just linked to Amazon for minimum fuss. See BenGallagher.com
So how exactly does Phil Brewer do the Amazon thing? He visits places where he is not persona non grata and drops business cards and pens on them. The business cards and pens proudly display Third Space Books. The bookseller I spoke to wouldn’t give me the card – woe is me – it would have appeared here. I decided not buy my lectionary from Third Space because postage costs sent the price above my budget.
I have other problems with Third Space Books. The bookseller offered to order my lectionary and asked me for the last four digits of my telephone number and my initials. I started trying to remember my telephone number backwards. Then my card details were asked for. At this stage I said, “stop”. Who in their right mind would leave bank details with someone they do not know?
This morning I googled Third Space Books and came up with a message, “SSG Bookshops formerely owned and operated by SPCK. If you were hoping to reach Third Space Books, please note for future reference that they are to be found at thirdspacebooks.com
This tells me that the SPCK must finally have stopped the Brewers from using their on-line address. A click on the site sends you to SPCK titles you might want to order on-line.
Should you follow Goggle to thirdspacebooks.com you’ll see a funny site. Third Space Books will tell you that you are not authorised to view this resource. You need to login. That’s in the big space – the one that draws the eye. The smaller space on the left allows you to shop on-line should you wish to do so. I’m not a media or marketing person but common sense tells me that Phil Brewer has made a another mess.
2008/08/23 at 6:20 pm
I have to admit, there are several sources of genuine puzzlement involved here.
I’d be fascinated to know what their cut of the take is on an order placed via their “bookstore.” The price is the same as that at Amazon, the shipping is handled by Amazon. Why not go ahead and buy straight from Amazon? “Ahh,” I thought to myself. “But this is a collection of Christian books, lovingly collected and vetted by these two sincere converts to Orthodoxy, the Brewers. It will be of inestimable value to the devout reader.” Of course, at that point, myself observed, “Yes. But what about those ever-popular titles from the Sex Department–immortal classics like ‘Tickle his Pickle’ and…”
Fortunately I shut myself up at that point. But three interesting questions remain:
1) How much do they get from the sale of each book, vs. how much it’s costing them to maintain the website? (Of course Ben Gallagher has pointed out that the website is open-source software and a cheap template…)
2) Who in the hell is picking out the books? And after seeing the picture on the front of “Tickle his Pickle,” I use the word “hell” advisedly.
3) Who’s their client base? If they’re fundamentalist or even Orthodox Christians, they may be a little…I dunno, put off when they move past the first page and find the Qur’an on one page, “Wicca” on another, and “Memoirs of a Spanking Model” on yet another.
These are probably questions best left to the Rev’d Dr. Christian Troll, but as we say on this side of the Pond, inquiring minds want to know. (I’d also like to mention that I think people should read whatever they please.)
2008/08/23 at 7:55 pm
Having looked at it its a simple amazon affiliate shop, the details on how much they make etc are all to be found here:
http://affiliate-program.amazon.co.uk/gp/associates/join/main.html
I thought it might be interesting to look at a few other examples of such shops and compare them – For small independent businesses and individuals etc they can be a cheap, easy method of internet dealing – a first step as it were for those with very very limited budgets, time or experience. Certainly they are not really the most totally professional way to go, but if you are small and with no cash flow to spare they can be at the least a start and passing nod to internet selling etc. A bit like to bookshop equivalent of an ebay shop.
Ohh one thing to mention is that they are totally free and have no costs involved at all to the affiliate member.
So as a comparison I thought it suitable and somewhat ironic that I use a couple of A-Shops that two of the sites that were included in the C&D’s issued by Mr J Mark Brewer have as examples of such affiliate A-Shops:
http://christianbookshops.org.uk/reviews/shop.htm
This one is housed on Phil Grooms main UKCBD website, obviously ordering through this medium helps provide some revenue to enable Phil G to maintain this site.
These next ones are affiliated to Unicorn Tree Books, whose blog unicorntreebooks.blogspot.com was mentioned in the C&D’s sent to Phil Groom – in fact according to the letter as posted by Phil G on spckssg.wordpress.com the demand was that the whole blog be removed not even just bits of it referring to Mr Brewer etc, unlike with the others where he asked only for the parts referring to him or ssg etc to be removed! Interesting that level of demand.
http://astore.amazon.co.uk/lincolncentralmarket-21/202-4568681-6499834?_encoding=UTF8&node=16
&
http://astore.amazon.co.uk/paranandroman-21
Beware this second one is housed with a Paranormal Romance Review Blog site and as such has some suitably tasteful material & garish covers and titles, though not nearly as fun as ‘tickle his pickle’! must look that one up.
2008/08/23 at 8:02 pm
Anne, I also believe that people should read whatever they please. It’s just that the Brewer’s have the stated aim of 15% Orthodox titles rising to 30% in three months. There take on Orthodox titles goes a bit like this:
The Sword of the Prophet, Revenge of the Prophet, Defeating Jihad and the Virtue of War. £6 000’s worth of stock per shop sitting rotting on shelves and in storage. They seem pretty adept at separating the actual bookshops from the virtual one.
2008/08/23 at 8:06 pm
Anne, “Tickle his Pickle” – naughty.
2008/08/24 at 9:20 am
Squiggle, maybe Phil Brewer needs to contact Phil Groom and ask very, very nicely how to set up an on-line shop. Brewer will have to say something like, “Sorry old chap about that C&D but can you help me here. No hard feelings, I’m sadly in need of training and I’m not qualified for the job my brother gave me. Can you help me set up an on-line website which does not exploit my readers? Can you help me set up a website where I don’t peddle smut for Jesus (a troll phrase)? Can you help me to not tell customers at my bookshops that I’ve hired Amazon to deliver books? Can you help me to be honest?” Imagine Phil Groom’s response.
2008/08/24 at 9:33 pm
[...] discussions about Third Space Books at asingleblog and bengallagher.com — both well worth a [...]
2008/08/25 at 5:14 am
Hmmm… well you’ll find my response here: Philip Brewer says, “Immediately post this…”. Always happy to help the Brewers on their journey…
2008/08/25 at 5:17 am
PS: Link to Ben Gallagher above doesn’t seem to be working: should be How To Create A Commerce Site
2008/08/25 at 3:08 pm
Nasty plan. One of the first things the Brewers did was to ban the sale of the Koran in the shops. How about we all go onto Third Space Books and order the Koran. When it arrives all we do is return the book to Amazon. Result – The Koran appears as Third Space Book’s bestseller but make no money from the sales.
What do people think.
2008/08/26 at 3:16 am
I think that is a mean suggestion and totally unfair to the honest traders on amazon who will be supplying the books and then will have to carry the burden of the refunds and loss of postage costs.
I can understand the hurt and anger generated by these people but there are more honest and reputable means of taking action that don’t involve hurting other innocent parties. Hurting other innocent booksellers makes one little better than the brewers.
Can I suggest instead that if you wish to take action you do something legal and not of detriment to innocent parties, for instance contact Amazon themselves and inform them, in light of the edict sent by Phil Brewer as reported at spckssg.wordpress.com, of the actions of third space books and therefore ask them to act in accordance with their stated terms and pull the plug on the third space site – oh and remember to contact us amazon as well as uk amazon!
2008/08/28 at 9:27 am
Oh Squiggle, you spoiled my fun
I was only joking because do I realy trust the Third Space site to be secure with credit card details? Looking at the memo on Phil Groom’s site, and thinking about the previous warning on Google about spckonline (before SPCK took it back) I personally would not be willing to put my card details on a Third Space online bookshop.
As to the innocence of Amazon, I know they are doing their job but speaking with many independent retailers Amazon are the Galactic Empire to their Rebellion.